Natalia Martens is a young working parent whose child goes to the Arnhem Primary International School. She has been living in the Netherlands since 1996. She was born in El Salvador. She studied in Utrecht for her Bachelors Degree and in Amsterdam she received a Master in Anthropology. She got married to Bert, her Dutch partner. She is now working for The Centre of Technical Agriculture and Rural Cooperation (CTA) in Wageningen since last year. Her husband Bert is also working and is a Physician at the Rijnstate Hospital in Arnhem.
A. Yes, Ben is 8 and Frieda is 3 years old.
Q. How did you organize yourself since you started working and are you working fulltime?
A. I am working fulltime and I first was looking for something partime of course but when the opportunity came for a job fulltime. Ben was going at the International school and Frieda had some days at the crèche and then we had to figure out what to do because schools finishes at 15.00 and starts at 8.30 and usually his works starts earlier and finishes later.
Q. But then what did you do? How did you organize yourselves?
A. Well, we had to first think about how to organize Ben, for after school. He has some activities sometimes and as a mum at home you have time to bring them to sports or music classes. So we had to hire someone who would do that and who could be flexible to go up and down to drop and collect the child and also Frieda has a totally different lifestyle with still naps and so we knew that it was difficult to find someone that would do that. Thus, Frieda is going to daycare three times a week. The daycare is from 7am to 7 pm.
Q. How did you find this daycare?
A. There are different companies. We chose the one in the hospital where Bert works and the name of it is Catalpa.
Q. Is this expensive?
A. Yes, it is expensive but it is also related to your income. For example for my younger son Ben, he was at a crèche when I was studying for my master degree and I had to pay less because I was a student at that time.
Q. And now that you are working normally and you are not a student anymore, you pay more. But is it related to both your income?
A. Yes, it is related to both our incomes and per hour. The daycare are very full normally and people get into a waiting list when women think of getting pregnant here in Holland because it is very hard to get into a daycare.
Q. Waw! Did you think about that and did you do it before?
A. Luckily Bert works in the hospital so he has a sort of priority…..
Q. Ok so you have organized yourself with Ben going to Skar after school when he does not have activities and for the after school activities you had to find a nanny or opa(in Dutch).
A. Yes, the next part was to find a nanny. There were different options: an au pair who lives at home, the crèche or one person, an opa at home. Because here in Holland, there are people (Opas) that can take care of your children in your house. Now everyone has to be certified.
Q. Where do you find this information?
A. You find it on the internet. Search for Oppas in Arnhem and you get a list of organizations that provide for this service. The information is in Dutch but some websites are in English and usually the ones in Dutch are very intuitive. There are also many nannies that put their advertisements in English on these websites. Then you chose some of them and interview them and ask for the price per hour.
Q. Once you know where to find the information for the nannies or Opas, it is difficult to choose. So what are the criteria that you have used to decideon who would come into your house and look after your children?
A. It was very difficult because it was the first time for us and we had no idea. So we thought of age and availability and someone who could adjust to our being international and speaking different languages in the house (Dutch, Spanish and English). Someone then could need a person with a driving licence, for example. We had just three weeks to find someone and we were lucky enough to find someone that could fit our requirements.
Q. What do you do when the children get sick?
A. It is very difficult. We have to take turns and we have to ask permission from the office to stay home with the children.
Q. What is the schedule of both you and your husband?
A. We both work fulltime. Bert starts from 8.00 to 18.00 and I work from 9.00 to 17.30 but I work in Wageningen and I usually get home by 19.00. We have to leave early in the morning as we have one car and we share that too. We in fact use also public transport.
Q. What do you find the most difficult part in this situation? When was it that you finally found to be in a crisis and asked yourself if this was worth to carry on?
A. At the beginning, the first two or three months were really exhausting, to combine the work and to get home and start to do things in the house. Of course the house is not dirty but you still have plenty of things to do andalso prepare dinner. Everything in a very short time and both of you are tired, not very happy. The most difficult thing is to switch off or disconnect yourself from the work you left and be present with the children and in the house to do what you need to do. So on Friday, you have to think that now it is something else. This is very hard because you like what you do but of course you have passion for both your work and your family.
Q. Thus, after all, are you both satisfied about the situation? What would you change? Would you go on with this situation?
A. This is a personal choice and it changes with people. What I strived for in my life is to work! And so even if it is physically tiring, in a way I have more patience with my children when I am at home. Much better then when I was with them the whole time. Now it is different. Now I also have a day free and I work 4 times a week instead of 5 and this is much better. Otherwise you only have Saturday to do everything, shopping, cleaning and everything else. So we have the family a bit more relaxed and I have more time to spend with Frieda and look at her personal development, speak more Spanish to her and spend time bonding.
Q. What about the children. How did they take it. Is it ok for them?
A. At the beginning Ben was a bit scared and wined but then he got used to it. He is fine now and I think it is ok we still spend a lot of time with them.
Q. What are the recommendation that you would give to mothers who are going to start working?
A. I have to stress that we are used to share a lot in the house me and my husband. That is very important and this is one of the things that the new generation does. If I am a woman it is not that I have to do everything in the house. It is also about communication, about understanding when there is no happiness. “I will clean this and you will do this”. This is important also for the children and they notice this a lot and appreciate it.
Q. Bert what is your overall experience as a father who is working, who has a wife who is working too almost full time. How did you cope with that. Was it difficult? What have been the challenges as a father?
A. At the beginning I could cope very well because I was working fulltime and Natalia was not working yet. Our life now has actually improved. It is getting busier but if you arrange with the daycare to take care of your children well it is duable, and you have a more equal relationship as husband and wife. You can both work and stand in society in the same way.
Q. Maybe also expressing your passions or what you want to do?
A. I think this is more with men than with women. I think that men feel more worthy if they work……
Q. What do you say about this Natalia? I think that there are many women who like to work…
A. Yes, especially because there are many places in society where you are only worth if you work and full time is even better than partime because when you are partime you are not able to fulfil the tasks that require certain responsibilities. It is better in fact to work 4 days as at this level you can do more fulfilling, professional and original work.
Q. So it is quite challenging at the end and it is not very easy to sort out what to do actually. At the end, it really depends eventually on how passionate you are about what you want to do.
A. (Bert) And also in the International community it really depends on which society you come from. Here in Holland it is common sense that both men and women work but if you come form a society where the women is not used to do this, it can be a big challenge. Right?
(Natalia) Yes, this also changes the relationship too.
Q. How does it work out in terms of finances?
A. (Bert) Financially it would be more convenient if one partner would stay home and take care of the children, but on the other hand what counts is being happy with what you do and what you would like to do.
Q. Well, thank you very much to have spent your time to come here and to have expressed your feelings and your experience about this. Let us hope that your example will inspire other families. It would be interesting to see some other considerations or reactions arising from this interview. Thank you.
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I can imagine the challenges you meet. To do them...
Go for it!
Challenges are everywhere and always.
I'm impressed to read what you achieved....
Enjoy!
Especially your kids, each other and yourselves.
Kindest regards,
Sita Saeys